Hoseheads Sprint Car Photos & News

Eric Gordon

Manifesto from a Madman

We’re Number One – Son Jake and father Eric celebrate an eighth Gordon Little 500 triumph. (David Sink photo)

Everywhere we look, it’s a watered down world. Low-fat, non-fat, sugar free, caffeine free, diet this, diet that, no MSG, low carb, and lettuce wrapped, the product marketing departments for food and drink corporations attempt to feed on our insecurities, promoting their offerings as healthier choices for leading an enriched life.

Moderation will always be the key but in a health-conscious society, consider the fate of the McDonald’s cherry pie. Once deep fried with cherries as hot as liquid magma, at some point the tasty confection became baked and vents were added, allowing the scalding heat to escape. Healthier, safer, and eventually relegated to limited menu status, in my opinion, the baked version will never compare to deep-fried. Eating is one of life’s simplest pleasures, but if we derive no taste, sensation, or enjoyment, why do we even bother?

For those of us who’ve sampled the various forms of motorsports, few would argue that the purest form available is sprint car racing. Bombarding all the body’s senses, like devouring mouth watering, artery clogging double cheeseburgers and chocolate shakes, attending or participating in a sprint car event is an addictive experience like no other. But much like the aforementioned McDonald’s cherry pie, racing organizations and track operators are finding ways to lessen the impact of sprint car racing, trying to make the once barbaric sport more user-friendly.

Pulling positive safety innovations aside, things like wings, wide tires, mufflers, minimum weight rules, curfews, dry slick surfaces, and the addition of provisional starting spots all reduce sprint car racing’s volatility and purity. Today’s formula seems tame when compared to decades ago when drivers toiled in t-shirts without the protection of roll cages, but wouldn’t you rather enjoy your sprint car racing as deep-fried as possible? It’s all about savoring the experience, right?

The emasculation of sprint car racing is just one indication of a watered down world where so many things are less harsh and more politically correct. Today’s generation of youthful sprint car drivers serve as a prime example. Auditioning to become million-dollar remote controlled corporate robots operated by NASCAR that the Sunday afternoon audiences adore, whatever happened to the original, deep-fried formula of the sprint car shoe? I don’t know about you, but baked simply bores me.

I’m talking about men who liked to pull pranks, speak their mind, and defend their turf if necessary. Hard-nosed racers who lived life on the edge, they celebrated with equal intensity and shook off the effects to race the next day. And what about those who pulled a forty or fifty hour work week, toiling until 1 or 2 in the morning night after night to ready a racecar for Friday? Those guys are still my heroes.

First impressions mean everything and my earliest exposure recognized true-blue sprint car racers like Jack Hewitt, Sheldon Kinser, Rich Vogler, Steve Butler, Tray House, Jac Haudenschild, Rick Hood, Bob Kinser, Chuck Amati, Robbie Stanley, Kevin Thomas, Tony Elliott, and Dave Darland. Colorful characters full of personality and life; they held nothing back, took chances and even climbed in less than stellar equipment just to get the opportunity to compete. Hardcore racers to the bone, they lived, ate, and breathed the sport, appreciative of its history and willing to sacrifice nearly everything to survive and succeed.

Chauffeurs from that era are quickly becoming extinct, as very few from the above list are still active. One name previously unmentioned who could certainly fit into that deep-fried category is Mohawk, Indiana native Eric Gordon, who after twenty years in the sport has certainly paid his dues, is not afraid of telling the truth, and owns several afternoons of stories worth listening to.

Starting his sprinting in the fall of 1985 at Chillicothe, Ohio, he was an infrequent World of Outlaws, All Stars, USAC and United Sprint Association combatant in those early days and after a trio of winged wins in 1988 at Liberty, Indiana, he changed paths and became a USAC regular for 1989, adding asphalt assignments to his syllabus. Rookie of the year and second to Rich Vogler in the championship chase, he notched his name into the esteemed sanctioning body’s record books by nipping Bob Frey at Toledo, Ohio in September of that same season.

Just a year later, near wins at the Indy Mile and IRP and a trophy hoisting in Milwaukee got him to within eleven points of a Silver Crown championship in yet another stellar rookie campaign. Trained in the virtues of blue-collar work ethic, honesty, and humbleness by his father Fay, he was also taught to be fiercely loyal to those who helped him along the way. As you will eventually learn, that loyalty cost him his best shot at a big-time championship.

Three times settling for second in the USAC sprint car standings, another three times of having to stomach a hard-fought third, once fourth and another time fifth, in Gordon’s twenty plus years of USAC competition, a coveted championship somehow managed to escape his grasp. In a sick form of irony, Eric did manage to claim the 2007 PRA Big Car title in an abnormally abbreviated three race schedule, but that series is no longer around to allow him the honor of defending a championship crown.

Champagne Shower – After winning his 8^th Little 500 in 2007, Eric prepares to celebrate. (David Sink photo)

When car owners did not come through on their original promises, Eric’s allegiance to honoring commitments and a necessity to put food on the table blocked any possibilities of bailing. Guided by those simple principles instilled by his dad, the satisfaction of living life to the specifications of his own moral obligations may not have been evident in those early years, but at the end of the deal, titles or not, at least he can say he did things the right way.

Earning star status just before “the other” Gordon became a household name to millions, once Jeff found Southern options to his satisfaction one would have assumed that USAC would be Eric’s playground and he would not be far behind. If only life were that easy, perhaps he too could have joined his namesake in the suffocating lifestyle of the NASCAR racer. Enjoying his freedom and the badge of honor that comes from being a lifelong open wheeled warrior, maybe things do happen for a reason?

Still, in those early 1990s, he did manage to test the waters of NASCAR, dipping his toes at IRP in August of 1993 after his initial Little 500 victory a few months earlier. But after a planned full season of Busch bashing stalled out in 1994 Daytona rookie orientation, he returned to focus full-time on USAC. Unfortunately, home cooking did not taste so good this time around.

Forced to make up the difference and over-extend himself in many of his sprint car deals, so many times he not only raced the equipment but also maintained it, acted as the chief mechanic, and shoved toothpicks in his eyelids to make the long haul home afterwards. Painful injuries from midget (Lakeside ’91) and sprint (Eldora ’92) spills added to the difficulties of battling week after week with Stanley, Butler, Keeker, Irwin, Bliss, Stewart, Michner, Kalitta, Tyler, and Steele.

Quality seats were few and far between and the loss of his longtime friend Robbie Stanley was extremely hard to overcome. The 1995 season was particularly demoralizing after a championship run with Dick Fuller imploded, with many outsiders placing uninformed blame on the driver. Scrounging a ride for the ’96 opener, after loading the car in a rented Ryder truck and towing all the way to Odessa, Missouri, he claimed a stunning victory, showing Fuller and the rest of the USAC faithful just how badly he wanted to race – and win.

His next two years were without question his most difficult, as for the first time in his adult life racing took a back seat. Serious health issues for both his father and wife kept his mind and heart occupied. But just before Fay’s passing, he would be there to witness Eric’s second Little 500 score. Essentially rideless and with serious medical bills mounting, at a career crossroads Gordon teamed with Waynetown, Indiana’s Jack French for a spirited and emotional come from behind victory, overtaking Bentley Warren late in the going.

Rejuvenating his financial outlook and desire to race, that pairing with French proved to be one of his best decisions ever, winning with him three years later, the first of five Little 500 victories in a row for the combination. Also producing top dollar in 2007 for Mike Bowman, Eric’s record-setting eight Little 500 wins seems insurmountable, as it is doubtful that there will be anyone else as passionate and focused on succeeding in that mentally draining and physically demanding event.

After 1998, twice more he would campaign an entire USAC sprint car season but since 2001, he has limited his appearances. Calling Mike Bowman’s Banjo Corporation sprint car team home since 2002, now working a full-time construction job, operating his own business in off hours, and acting as husband and father to a teenage daughter and a seven year old son who so desperately wants to race quarter midgets, there has been talk that 2008 will be Eric Gordon’s last year of competition from behind the wheel.

Normally quiet, pensive, and private, recently Eric offered a rare opportunity to talk in depth about the last twenty years of racing; open, honest, and without filter. As deep-fried as they come, Eric will be the first to admit the craziness of his actions at times in chasing his dreams, calling himself a “nut” for being so hardcore in his pursuit. But at the end of it all, despite not nearly achieving everything he had hoped for while staring off into space during elementary school art class, he is now able to look at the big picture and fully appreciate the opportunities, excitement, and adventure of being a lifelong sprint car competitor. It was never an easy road to follow, but those vital lessons and values learned from his father prepared him for every step along the way.

Traffic Master – Gordon peeks low in heavy 2007 Glen Niebel Classic traffic. (David Sink photo)

A special thank you goes out to Mike Bowman for providing his impressive racing compound as the setting to reflect on the last two decades. Another huge thank you is extended to Anderson, Indiana photographer David Sink, who went out of his way to dig up some special shots of Eric. If you find yourself interested in purchasing some of David’s pictures, shoot him a message at MRLITTLE500@aol.com. One would think that e-mail address should be reserved for Gordon, but it only seems natural that someone equally passionate about the Little 500 should aid in celebrating Gordon’s storied career.

Without further interruption, enjoy!

KO: Remember the newspaper from the early 1990s called Sprint Car? They used to have driver bios where they asked some basic questions. I always enjoyed that section, getting to know the personal side of drivers. So if I may, I’d like to do the same with you.

KO: Hometown/Current residence?

EG: Hometown is Greenfield and current residence is Indianapolis (Acton).

KO: Ahhhhhh….The Acton Assassin?

EG: Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard.

KO: Current family – wife, children?

EG: Wife – Jamie and I have two kids. I have a son Jake who is 7 and I have a daughter Erica who will be 13 on April 1^st.

KO: Brothers and sisters?

EG: I have four sisters and a brother.

KO: Current job?

EG: Construction.

Tire Man – Eric’s son Jake inspects Hoosier rubber at the Bowman shop, anxious to get his own career started. (Sam Brooks photo)

KO: Favorite track(s), least favorite track?

EG: I had a lot of favorite tracks. I don’t know if there’s just one. There’s a lot of neat places in this country that you can run. But there’s also a lot of crap holes you can run at too. I really can’t answer that. We used to run down there at I-44 in Missouri and I always thought that was a neat place.

KO: I would think Anderson would be pretty high on your list.

EG: Of course Anderson Speedway is a place that means a lot to me. I can’t stress how much it has meant to me and my career. They’ve done a lot of things for me over the years. And if it wasn’t for the help of guys like Glen Niebel, Jack French, and Mike Bowman, I wouldn’t be where I am today.

KO: You liked Berlin didn’t you?

EG: I like Berlin. I like the banks. There’s a lot of neat places to go. There’s places we went to that were NASCAR associated facilities that were beautiful. I really liked running the big tracks like Phoenix and Richmond.

KO: What about Milwaukee?

EG: Milwaukee wasn’t bad but it wasn’t near as nice a facility as Phoenix. Phoenix was just great. Colorado was great too. But there were a lot of absolute crap holes that we ran at too.

KO: Favorite food?

EG: I don’t know. Beer? My favorite would have to be Chinese. General Tso’s chicken or something like that.

KO: Favorite restaurant?

EG: Wherever they have the Chinese at and it’s properly cooked.

KO: Favorite band – music?

EG: That changes. I’ll go through phases where I’ll listen to somebody like Korn for awhile. Metallica. And then I get into the classic stuff with Skynyrd or Allman Brothers Band. And then I’ll listen to something like Limp Bizkit for awhile. That changes constantly. I don’t stay in one spot too long on anything. You always have to have constant change.

Timing Light Tango – Gordon is in the middle of his four lap qualifying run for the 2007 Little 500. (David Sink photo)

KO: If you ever had any time to watch TV, do you have a favorite show or movie?

EG: Anything on The History Channel.

KO: Favorite sports teams? Judging from your sweatshirt it looks like you are a fan of the Buckeyes.

EG: Yeah. Ohio State football. Although I don’t want to talk about the last two years in the BCS.

KO: Heroes?

EG: Actually, anyone who puts in their time at work during the week and goes home and takes care of their kids.

KO: Dreams as a kid?

EG: To be a professional racecar driver.

KO: All-time favorite drivers to race against, or are there too many?

EG: There’s a lot of good guys that I raced against. Yeah, there’s too many – the same deal as racetracks. I’ve run too long. There’s a lot of good guys that you raced against and then there’s a lot of first class assholes you raced against too.

KO: Personal vehicle? I imagine it’s your work truck.

EG: Yeah, I have a GMC pickup truck.

KO: If you didn’t grow up to be a racecar driver, what else did you want to do?

EG: That was it. I didn’t have a backup plan. That was the whole deal.

KO: All right, now on to the rest of the questions. Take me back to those Big Z quarter midget days, the mecca at I-74 and Post Road.

EG: I drive by that every day.

KO: How did you get interested in racing in the first place?

EG: I grew up in a little town called Mohawk, outside of Greenfield. There was a kid in town named Jamie Matthews who had quarter midgets. We were buddies and we ran around together and I was just fascinated with those quarter midgets to the point to where I finally pestered my dad into getting one and that’s how it started. We ran at Big Z and over at Columbus indoors at the fairgrounds and just all over the Midwest.

KO: How old were you when you started?

EG: About Jake’s age – I was about seven.

KO: Any competitors’ names that you remember?

EG: That’s where I met Robbie Stanley at. We were less than one day apart in age and we started about the same time. That’s where we met and became friends. I also raced against Stevie Reeves. Jimmy Vasser. Mike Groff. Robbie Groff. There’s a few others in there too.

Thinking Man – Eric is deep in thought before PRA action at Lakeland, Florida in December of 2006. (David Sink photo)

KO: What was the atmosphere like there?

EG: It was pretty neat. You could go out and play football, tag, or play with hot wheels or whatever. Then, as soon as your parents yelled at you that your race was getting ready to come up you’d run back into your pit area, put your helmet on, and hop in the car and beat on each other. Then when the race was over and the parents were working on stuff you went back out and played football.

KO: Nowadays, even in quarter midgets there is tons of money involved, with parents towing with massive toter homes and shelling out top dollar for the latest in engine and shock technology. Back when you started, was there money involved or was it just talent, skill, and desire?

EG: Well I’m sure there was money to a degree. But when you’re that age you didn’t pay attention to it. Everybody back then threw their cars into the back of a pickup truck. I remember them having station wagons and the cars had removable roll cages – and just throwing it in the back of the car. If you had a trailer, you were big time. I remember when one of the first enclosed trailers I saw rolled in. We all thought that an Indy car had come rolling into town. Oddly enough, that was Jeff Gordon. He came rolling in with a 24 foot enclosed trailer. Everybody thought – wow, there’s big money.

Sam Brooks: Didn’t you say back then that your driving suit was a leather jacket?

EG: Yeah, it was a leather jacket with leather gloves. And a helmet. There was no Nomex. There were no five point seat belts. They just got roll cages a couple of years before that.

KO: What kind of success did you have at an early age?

EG: I won a bunch of races. I don’t know how many I won – hundreds of races in those cars.

KO: At what point did you know that you were ready to jump to sprint cars?

EG: When my dad told me I was. You’ve got to retire from quarter midgets by the time you’re 16. I got out long before then. It’s like soap box derby – once you start growing and gaining weight, it’s hard to compete against someone like my son who is skin and bones. We talked about it – actually we were going to get in a three-quarter midget and we didn’t have very much money, so we knew we were only going to be able to get one thing. I worked a couple of summers for my dad – not for pay – just to save up money to get something. We decided we were going to spend the same amount of money on a used sprint car that we were on a used midget or a used three quarter and it should be able to run more places for more money. So that’s how I jumped straight into a sprint car.

KO: So what age was that when that finally happened?

EG: Fourteen I think.

KO: What kind of equipment did you have?

EG: I bought a used Oz-Car with a steel 377 in it. It didn’t have power steering. It had the wing. I don’t even remember who I bought it off of. Oh – I bought it off of Ron Stanley but he had bought out someone else. He was wanting their open trailer. They had an open trailer that had three racks on it for the tires which was a big deal. He wanted the trailer and I got the car. It was something like that. He had bought somebody out who had ran it a few times. But it had a steel 377 with the Pink steel rods. I don’t even know what heads were on it. And real small – like 2 inch injectors. No power steering. It had the in and out box. It didn’t have the nice rear ends like we have now. It was a real piece of crap but at the time I thought it was the neatest thing in the world.

I remember stepping on the gas the first time at a wing show. The first show I ever ran was at Chillicothe, Ohio with a wing. That’s a fast joint – 3/8ths mile. I remember the first time I stepped on the gas going down the backstretch. I thought a bomb went off. I just thought that was the most instantaneous power I’d ever felt in my life!

The Team – Standing from left to right are Brent Elmore, Mike Bowman, Sam Brooks, Jim Dillon, Eric Gordon, and Mike Thompson. (KO photo)

KO: So that might have been around 1986?

EG: I think I ran a few shows at the end of ’85.

KO: Would you have gone to Mount Vernon High School near Fortville?

EG: Yeah. I graduated from Mount Vernon High School in ’86.

KO: Were you a good student there? Did you play any sports?

EG: Yeah, I played sports. I was on the wrestling team. I won three sectionals, a regional and I made it into the state tournament where I got my fanny thumped in the first round.

KO: So as far as hitting the books…?

EG: That wasn’t an option. I never cracked a book and I got decent grades. I actually got good enough grades and a good enough score on my SAT that I was actually accepted to Ball State University on an engineering degree. Every kid that my mom and dad had went to college except me. My older sisters and brother graduated from Ohio State. My younger sisters went to University of Indianapolis. They wanted me to go to school. And I was going to go to Ball State because it was close to home. I was registered for school – the room and the whole deal. I was going to go with a friend of mine, that way we’d pair up and we’d know who our roommate was. I stiffed him and never showed up. I figured if I went to college for four years that I was going to miss out on running the sprint car and my career would be completely over with and done. That would be four years you wouldn’t be able to get back. I remember having an argument with my parents. They said you can run a sprint car when you get out of college. I said, “No you can’t. You’ll miss that four years and never be able to get it back.” Ryan Newman went to college and proved that wrong.

KO: To my knowledge, in the early days you were a winged racer at places like Bloomington, Paragon, and Liberty. So why not a wingless racer at Putnamville and Kokomo?

EG: Because my dad didn’t want me running without the wing until I was 18. And my mom didn’t even know I was running. When I first started running the sprint car, she didn’t even know I was running because my dad knew that my mom would kill him. And I remember I got hurt at Gas City and had to have plastic surgery because I got my face cut up real bad. On the way home, we were trying to figure out what we were going to tell my mom because obviously she was going to figure it out as soon as we opened the door. And we concocted some lame story and told her with a straight face. She said, “Just how stupid do you think I am?” And we said well – that’s what happened. I never told her I ran a sprint car. When I ran on the Thursday Night Thunder shows and Saturday Night Thunder shows, she wouldn’t watch the race. She’d sit out on the front porch and make one of my sisters watch the race and then they’d come out and tell her when the race was over and how I did and where I finished. Then she’d go back in the house.

KO: The first time I really remember noticing your name was when you made a World of Outlaws feature through your heat race at Bloomington in September of 1987. If I may recall, you might have even won the heat race. Knowing that you had made the feature against that kind of a field, were you nervous at all in the moments leading up to the feature?

EG: I was probably just wanting to make enough money to get home that night. Really. The outlaws paid good money. You usually spent your rent and gas money trying to make the show. You were running against Wolfgang, Swindell, and Kinser and Bobby Allen and all those guys. Plus back then you had ten Kinsers running too. In fact that night, didn’t they have the Kinser Klash where they had all the Kinsers run against each other? There were like 10 or 12 of them that made up their own feature. Dallas was running then. Sheldon, Kelly, Randy…and you had Mickey Smith who was related. Who was the other guy who was related to them?

But there was a bunch of them. I wasn’t so much nervous about it as I was wanting to make sure I made enough money to get home and make it to the next race.

KO: Your good friend Sam Brooks recently told me that you are/were a pretty big Sammy Swindell fan.

EG: (Laughing) I was!

Thanks Tracy – Preparing to uncork his own champagne bottle after winning the first-ever PRA meet at Illiana, Eric gets doused by second place finisher Tracy Hines. (David Sink photo)

KO: At least at the time, what traits did you admire in him and did you ever approach him as an up and coming racer seeking advice or help?

EG: Yeah, yeah. Before I’d started running sprint cars or when I first started running sprint cars – Robbie Stanley got his sprint car before I got mine and I went to the races down there at Paragon to help him out to see what was all involved. I was helping his brother change tires and stuff like that. I went to a World of Outlaws show down there at Paragon and Sammy was running the Old Milwaukee cruiser for Raymond Beadle. I just thought that was the neatest deal I’d seen. He always keeps his stuff spotless. He was meticulous. He has good work ethic. I always admired him for that. He raced it. He wrenched on it. I had Sammy Swindell shirts and the whole bit.

And in ’92, Robbie and I were hanging out in Foyt’s garage at the Speedway because they were talking about putting a third car together for Snider to run. And we were trying to leech on there in the garage to get on the crew for that team. We were going to help out, get experience, shake hands, and try to get in at the Speedway. Robbie and I were walking around on pit lane one day and Sammy Swindell walked up. He was asking Robbie a question and Robbie went to introduce him to me. And the prick wouldn’t even shake my hand. I went home that night and threw my Sammy Swindell shirt away. I ain’t thought much of him since. Robbie introduced me to him and he lifted his arm up real slow and his hand real slow and he acted like he didn’t want to shake my hand. So I thought – here’s a guy I had mistakenly put on a pedestal. His boy gets it honest, let’s put it that way.

KO: I remember seeing the Oz-Car name on your car in Liberty victory lane photos in Speed Sport News during the summer of ’88. It seems like I was reading your name quite a bit. How many feature wins did you have there that summer?

EG: I remember we won three in a row. I do remember that. We won three in a row and finished second and other than that, I don’t remember.

KO: Was that a big confidence booster for you?

EG: Yeah, that was. It was to a point where it was going to be a make or break deal. And then we had kind of gotten hooked up with a group of people who had ran with me for a long time: Tony Epperson and Jay Manship, who was a crew member who went on the road with me for a long time. And Oz, with the brand new car. I’m trying to remember who did the motors then. I can’t remember if it was Hickernell-Williams or Donnie Ray Everett. But that was a neat car. I really liked that car.

KO: At that time, did you have a special relationship with Lee Osborne? Any thoughts on the man?

EG: Well, I looked at him as a mentor. Here was a guy who could not only drive the car, he won three championships with the All Stars, then he’d go back to his shop in Jamestown, which was a little mini barn basically, with a heater in it, and he’d build 85 cars a year. 85 chassis a year! The best year he had I think he told me was over 100, but he was building 85 cars a year. He was building cars for Randy Wolfe from PA. He’d have guys like Karl Kinser calling him on the phone. And Foyt. And Snider. Haudenschild would stop in with his World of Outlaws team. It just seemed like that little bitty barn there in Jamestown was the center of the sprint car world, at least at that time in my life it was.

KO: That’s cool. Moving on to 1989, you started the season at East Alabama with the USA, but then you ventured out and put together a full-time USAC effort, which at the time was primarily winged dirt events along with wingless pavement. You already mentioned the name of Tony Epperson and then there was Lester. Both names were proudly displayed on the car – big and bold. How did the relationship form with those two men and what kind of influence did they have on you?

EG: Lester was Tony Epperson’s partner. He wasn’t into the racing. He was into horses. That was Tony’s deal. Tony was in the commercial construction business just like my dad, my uncle, and I am. Basically it was from work. Tony was just a fan of sprint car racing. He’s a good old boy. He just started going out to the races as manual help. He went to races with us for years. However he could help us out, he’d help us out. He also got to be a very good referee. He was a really good buffer between me and my dad. We’d have knock down, drag out fights - screaming matches - because we were at work together all the time. We were working all the time just to keep the lights on at the house. His business wasn’t doing well, so that meant I was working more for free. And I was tired and irritable. He was tired and irritable. And we’d just come undone on each other, just like every father and son. And Tony would always be there to split us up and calm us down.

One time I ran the Florida Fairgrounds – where was that – Tampa? It was during Sprintweeks. It was the All Stars. There were 70 some cars there. And they said, “We don’t have time to screw around. You get in line for qualifying. If you’re not in line for qualifying where you’re supposed to be, you only get one lap. We’re going to penalize you one lap.” I don’t know who it was because if I knew, I’d tell you. But some moron jumps out of line and goes all the way to the front, because the track’s going to be shot. So he jumped out of line and went all the way to the front and got his two laps. So that made all the rest of us, the back twenty cars, get penalized, because we were technically out of line. So we get one lap. I go out and run my one lap there at the end. I came in and my dad goes, “Why did you only run one lap?” I said, “Somebody jumped out of line and we all got penalized.” And he came undone. We had an observation deck on top of the trailer with lawn chairs. And he was sitting up there pouting. And I go up there to see what we’re going to do for the heat race. And I sit down in a lawn chair and he looks at me and goes, “What are you doing?” I said, “What do you mean what am I doing?” He said, “Don’t sit in that lawn chair.” I said, “What are you talking about?” He said, “That’s Rocky Hodges’s lawn chair. Get out of that lawn chair.” I said, “What are you talking about?” He says, “That’s who we’re hiring to drive that car the rest of Sprintweeks. You need to get out of Rocky’s lawn chair.” And I looked at him and said, “ARE YOU SERIOUS?” And he said, “Yeah, I’m serious.” And I stood up and folded that lawn chair and threw that lawn chair as far as I could off that trailer. And I said, “Screw you and screw Rocky Hodges and go get Rocky’s chair.” Actually, I said some other words. I had to climb down the side of the trailer and there again was Tony Epperson. My dad was up there laughing his fanny off because I did that. But Tony put that fire out. He was good at putting fires out. He and my uncle Jerry were very good at that.

PRA Hardware – Winner of the South Shore 125 in June of 2006, Gordon displays the fruits of his labor to photographer David Sink.

KO: Later on in that ’89 season, your pavement prowess was pretty evident. You had finishes of 8^th, 8^th, 7^th, 7^th, 6^th, 5^th, 7^th, and 4^th before your first USAC win at Toledo on September 10^th of 1989. What was your key to such early pavement adaptation? Was it from running winged sprint cars where they teach you to drive straight? Was it the car that had the parallel bars in the front? Was it a certain mechanic’s expertise? It was probably a combination of everything, right?

EG: Well, the car had a lot to do with it. Lee and Phil Shuler built that car. It was a parallel bar front which no one had done since Paul Leffler had done it.

KO: Things were clicking?

EG: Yeah. But we had excellent motors then too. One thing I will say is that we always had good motors. We’d argue over everything. You know. I remember when we first started running a winged car. Everybody would be changing torsion bars. Everybody would be changing their tires and their stagger as the night wore on. But my dad would say, “Just put fuel in it and run it.” And I’d say, “Evidently we’re supposed to be changing on these bolts – that’s why they have adjusters.” And he’d say, “Nope. You just need to learn how to drive it.” And we’d argue and argue and argue. And that pavement car, me and Jay just kind of disregarded him. Tony would always take him to get a hot dog and when he took him we’d change the stagger, the gears, and the shocks real quick. And we kind of hit on something to where that car was starting to click.

KO: So that first win at Toledo, you beat Bob Frey and Glen Niebel that night. I’m sure you have memories of that first win at Toledo, correct?

EG: I was just relieved. Because there again, it was literally, we were going to have money to run a couple more weeks.

KO: You finished 2^nd in points to Rich Vogler in 1989, claiming rookie of the year honors. Just 21 years of age at that time, you already had decent success and at that time, that was a young age. You said that you were working full-time with your dad but did your success in ’89 give you false visions of grandeur, thinking that maybe you could survive off your racing full-time, making a living?

EG: Well, that’s about the time I went full time. Actually, there for a few years I did race full-time. That’s how I paid the bills. That’s what I ate off of. No, it wasn’t illusions of grandeur. You got to the point where you were running that many shows that you were going to have to decide what you were doing. In ’90, I ran 100 races. I went to Australia and ran down there in the winter. And then I came up and started at the Copper and ran clear up until El Centro, right after Turkey Night. 11 months…but there’s no way you can run all those shows and work. I felt I wasn’t getting paid to work anyway, so I might as well go race. And taking care of the cars too was a full-time deal.

KO: Early into the 1990 season, you had a memorable week around the Indy 500. You won on a Sunday night at IRP for your second career USAC victory. Then a couple of weeks later, you led 44 of 60 laps of the Hulman Hundred on Memorial day, but a broken oil pump sidelined you in only your second Silver Crown start. Given the great run on the mile, were you heartbroken or excited about the possibilities?

EG: I was sick to my stomach that particular day. Jack Hewitt was second, in Hamp’s car. I was going to beat Jack Hewitt, in Hamp’s car, at the Fairgrounds. And you don’t get that many opportunities. And because of a rubber belt, not only did it cost me a chance at doing that, but if that belt would have stayed on, I would have won the championship that first year out, not Jimmy Sills. You know: woulda, coulda, shoulda. We all have those.

KO: Debuting 9^th at the Copper, you had a very strong initial Silver Crown campaign. After Phoenix, Indy, and an 18^th at Sacramento, you led 89 of 100 IRP laps but in another heartbreaker ended up 3^rd to Snider and Schrader. I remember you were a very humble guy, thanking Phil Shuler on ESPN. How did you get hooked up with Shuler?

EG: Phil started out with me specifically on the champ car because that’s something I never messed with before. I had no idea what I was getting into. That first year, that’s all Phil did pretty much – most of that year – was taking care of the champ car. He had worked for Foyt and he quit Foyt’s Indy car team and had come back to Indiana and was wanting to get into racing part time again. So the champ car really appealed to him. And I loved champ cars. I really liked that 81 champ car too. That was a neat, neat car. When that car was built and rolled out of Oz’s shop, the day it rolled out of that shop it was the most technologically advanced champ car around. You know, that was pre-Beast, pre anything else. That was it. That was as good a car you were going to get at that day, which made my job a lot easier.

KO: So what did Shuler bring to the table that helped you be so successful right out of the box?

EG: Well, on those champ cars it’s a big deal to not have anything fall off and to also be ahead of the curve on fatigue. That’s the main thing. That’s what he brought. He knew how many miles you could run on a crank before you had to get ‘em swapped out. He knew how many miles on a clutch. He knew how you were going to abuse a clutch and if you take all that stuff off a guy’s mind who is normally driving it, taking care of it, and driving it to the track, it makes your life a lot easier. Phil is a grouchy, grouchy individual. But, nothing fell off his car. He was very good at being ahead of the fatigue curve. Stuff usually didn’t break on his car because it was worn out.

Straight and Smooth – Looking at the placement of Gordon’s hands in this shot from Lakeland, Florida, he has the right mindset for pavement. (David Sink photo)

KO: That definitely helps on 100 mile races.

EG: Yep, yep. You have to run the 100 miles first before you win it. He just had experience dealing with those cars so that put us a lot further ahead than other people.

KO: 1990, at least in my mind, are the good old days. It wasn’t too long after I just started getting into sprint cars, champ cars, and midgets. Things seemed to be a lot different then than now. Do you wish you could go back to those days and savor those solid runs and that kind of innocent success?

EG: There were a lot of things that happened that year that I didn’t really understand or comprehend at the time. The other reason too that I ran really well in the sprint car and champ car was because I was a contract driver for Goodyear. I mean, I was Goodyear’s guy. And they were at war with Hoosier. So I wasn’t paying for tires. If Hoosier beat them the week before, Goodyear’s engineers would make a tire that was going to beat them this week. I got a truck, once a week, from Akron, Ohio, with some tire that had a goofy name on the side of it that said run two laps only – take it off the rim and ship it back for destruction. It was a tire war. That’s what I remember. It was an all-out tire war at that time and I benefited from it. I was Goodyear’s guy. I was lucky. They were a Fortune 500 company. They were into every kind of racing in the world. And I’m their man! But when they left the sport too, though, they also left me out there alone.

KO: So later during the summer of 1990, you landed one of the top midget rides in the country in the Larry Howard 71 for Kokomo and IRP. How did that come about?

EG: I think Gary Sokola had talked to him because he called me right after that race in the champ car at IRP. He said he was going to be swinging through the Midwest. What he did at the time, he took care of the Dave Ellis cars that P.J. Jones drove. And they always carried extra cars. And he said if P.J. wasn’t tied up, they wanted me to run a car, or they were going to run two cars or something. And he had the best stuff you could get, equipment-wise. He had Ellis chassis and he had Fontana engines. But they also told you up front - I remember going over to the shop that they were using off 15^th Street. It was somebody’s old Indy car shop and they told you up front that P.J. was their guy. American Racing was their sponsor. That was P.J.’s sponsor and if P.J. needed something, P.J. got it. You were a second class citizen. They told you that going in. If you had a problem with it, they’d find somebody else. If you didn’t have a problem with it, they’d do everything they could to make you fast. So I thought it would be cool to run for Larry Howard. So I did it.

KO: So was it a good deal or were you the second class citizen?

EG: No, I can say I ran for Larry Howard.

KO: Not a lot of guys can say that. The drivers of his cars are all top notch.

EG: If you are going to do this for a certain period of time, there were certain people I wanted to say I ran for when I left. And I’ve been able to get most of them.

KO: Looking at the rest of the 1990 Silver Crown summer – you were 7^th in the Hoosier Hundred, 2^nd at Springfield, 9^th at DuQuoin, and then the win at Milwaukee after taking the lead from Dave Blaney with 3 to go. I don’t know if Blaney ran out of fuel or whatever, but with three to go, you were the leader. Everything was clicking and happening so quickly for you. How were you handling all that success?

EG: Well, I was able to eat. We were making money. It was $10,000 to win at Milwaukee. I was so happy that I went out drinking with Jimmy Sills until 4 o’clock in the morning. He took me. And he bought! That was even better yet! I crawled in the next morning. I rode the truck back to Indianapolis. I rode the hauler. I didn’t drive it that day.

KO: That’s cool!

EG: Yeah, but back then, you didn’t have the migration south. Back then, it was still the illusion of Indy. I was born and raised in Central Indiana. I used to sit in art class in elementary school drawing up Indy cars with my name on them. That’s what I wanted to do - run the Indianapolis 500. Then you start getting to the stage where you have some success and all of a sudden, people come out of the woodwork, saying, “You want to run the Speedway?” And I’m like – sure, that’s all I ever wanted to do. And that’s kind of when you learn how the world really works. Sure, we’d love to have you in our car. All you got to do is bring X amount of dollars. And I was in shock! I was like, “Pay to drive a racecar?” No, I’m not going to pay to drive a racecar. I haven’t even taken the tour bus around the speedway because I felt that was sacrilegious. If I was going to make a lap around the speedway, it was going to be in a car, an Indy 500 car. That’s just how I felt. I’d get physically ill at the racetrack because I wanted to run there so bad. I’d get worked up. After ’92, that kind of passed really easy.

Storyteller – Extremely patient, Eric awaits another question in a grueling three and a half hour long interview. (Sam Brooks photo)

KO: At the Eldora finale, your new buddy and points leader Jimmy Sills crashed early. Unable to capitalize, you started and finished 7^th, falling 11 points short of the title.

EG: If we would have had McCrearys on that day, we would have won the championship. I have a loyalty thing, a loyalty issue until it faults. I remember before that feature started, Chuck Kopatchee, who was the head of short track racing for Goodyear, came to me, and he said, “We do not have a dirt tire than can compete with McCreary, today, at this track. It will not happen. I do not want to cost you a championship. Goodyear officially gives you a release to run McCrearys at this track.”

And I didn’t do it! I rode the pony this far. I’m gonna ride it the rest of the way. And he begged and pleaded with me to run McCrearys. And I wouldn’t have anything to do with it. And as soon as that feature was over, I realized I should have run McCrearys.

KO: Was that a crushing defeat or was it too early for you to realize how significant a Silver Crown or any USAC championship would be?

EG: It was too early for me. I thought, well I’ll just get it next year. It’s no big deal. I’ll just get it next year.

KO: Talking about it today, you second guessed yourself. Do you still second guess yourself? Or do you still feel good because you were loyal?

EG: That’s just how I am. With Goodyear giving me tires, it enabled me to become a full-time racer. If Goodyear had not given me tires, I wouldn’t have been able to race full-time. That was saving me $30,000 a year.

KO: Wow, back then that was A LOT!

EG: Today, that’s a lot! But we were running 100 shows. Anything I got in, it had Goodyear tires on it. And Goodyear supplied them. I felt, in my heart of hearts that I was going to run the Indianapolis Motor Speedway some day and Goodyear tires, at the time, were at the Speedway. I felt obliged to stick with them.

KO: You picked up another sprint car win at Berlin in 1990 but again that year you had to settle for 2^nd in points. Remembering just how many dirt winged races USAC had on their schedule, how tough was it just making the shows when so many All Star and World of Outlaw guys would come in and cherry pick?

EG: They weren’t hard to make, but they were hard to win because of what you just said. I didn’t mind running with the wing because that’s what I started running on. I really had a hard time when USAC did away with the wing entirely and went straight to non-wing. We were behind on technology. It takes a whole different car to do it right. It’s like dirt and pavement. You had no prayer to win one of those shows because Bobby Allen would come in or Wolfgang…whatever Outlaw guy needed money was going to come in and run. Whatever All Star guy needed to pay a tire bill that had mounted up was going to come in and wax everybody’s fanny.

KO: You had a few battles with the other Gordon, that being Jeff of course. I’m sure there was some confusion having the same last name. How many times did uninformed people ask if you two were related?

EG: I lost count. No really. I have no idea. At one point, it irritated me. But you know what, it doesn’t anymore. I’ve got a kid with the same EXACT name down at IU you know. I’ve gotten phone calls at the house looking for him. You know when he got hurt a doctor called my house offering some treatment that was going to get him back on the court. I said – you watch – he’ll get drafted by the Pacers and I’ll have to put up with it for 16 more years!

KO: How weird is it to be seeing your name on the news and reading your name in the paper so much?

EG: It’s not, because the Jeff Gordon deal got me prepared for it. It’s no big deal. I’ll tell you a funny story about Tony Epperson while I’m thinking about it. He’s a super guy. I’d give him the shirt off my back if he needed it. If there was anything he needed, he’s just one of those people. He’s just a good dude. He used to ride with us in the hauler. We had a crew cab dually and an enclosed trailer back then. We were going to Hazard, Kentucky for a USAC race. Have they already told you this one?

KO: Yeah, but I want your version.

EG: Well, we pull in there. It’s raining off and on. Off and on. We pull in and all the haulers are waiting in line. I’d gotten to know Richard Hoffman and Old Timer because we raced against each other every week. All our haulers are lined up waiting to decide whether or not the race is going to run. The promoter, it was either a woman or it was the promoter’s wife, I don’t know who. But she was from the track and she came down and she was throwing a fit! She goes, “Oh no no! This hauler can’t be here. You’re going to have to cover this trailer up.”

And we’re like, “What’s going on?” And she said, “Don’t you realize who’s on the side of your trailer?” And I’m like, “No. Epperson and Lester. They’re painting contractors out of Indianapolis.” And she goes, “Oh really?” And we explained it to her. And she laughs…she said, “The fans are going to have fun with that tonight. If you hear some guns going off in the stands, people shooting in the air – there used to be a guy here in Hazard, Kentucky named Doc Brown. He was the town doctor who didn’t believe in banks. He kept his money in his mattress at his house. This fella named Epperson found out about it and broke in his house one night, shot him, and stole his money. They’re going to think it’s Epperson, the guy on your car.”

Well, I said, I’ve got Lester on there too. And she goes, “No, no, no! Here’s the best part. He was awaiting trial and this attorney named Lester got him out on bail and they both skipped town.”

Post-Qualifying Pose – Relaxed and smiling, a relieved Gordon is photographed after his 2007 Little 500 qualifying run was complete. (David Sink photo)

KO: WOW! What are the odds? That’s amazing!

EG: We crawled in the trailer real quick and we were trying to find duct tape to cover up the names. Luckily that show got rained out that night but I remember we pulled out of the track and my dad was driving. And he goes, “Man I’m beat and we’ve got to race at Glasgow, Kentucky tomorrow night. Let’s get a hotel here and get some shuteye.” And I was like, “HELL NO! We ain’t staying in Hazard with a hauler that has Epperson and Lester all over it. We’re getting the hell out of town.” And he said, “Awww, there isn’t going to be anybody who will be messing with it.” And we stood there in the parking lot arguing about it for ten minutes. And he finally said, “I’m going in the hotel. You can stay out here in the hauler.” But that was hilarious.

KO: TV and the Thunder Series obviously influenced the career of Jeff Gordon. How did it affect you?

EG: We were able to get a lot of product help a lot easier. I’ve been with Simpson since 1990 as far as factory support goes. I’ve been with Weld Wheels since 1990 with factory support. Just with stuff like that. If they see you on TV, it’s easier to get parts for your racecar. It’s also easier for you to get phone calls from people promising you this or that and then you find out they’re full of crap.

Half the people in racing are full of crap. The other half aren’t.

KO: At least it’s not 60/40!

EG: Some days it seems like it’s 90/10.

KO: People tended to make plenty of comparisons between you and “Flash” Gordon, but at the time did you think there was too much hype surrounding Jeff?

EG: If you win the show, it’s not hype you know. Jeff, from that day, to this day, lives in a glass bowl. Everything he’s ever done has been scrutinized. He gets divorced, it makes the national papers. Nuts to that. It’s crazy, for just wanting to be a racecar driver.

KO: I know how badly Vogler wanted to beat Jeff Gordon. How badly did you want to beat him? Or was he just another guy on the track?

EG: Well, you wanted to beat him. He was Hoosier’s guy at the time. Goodyear was making me special tires to out-qualify Jeff. And Jeff was getting special tires from Hoosier to out-qualify me. But you know what, I took pride in beating a guy like Vogler. I remember going to the Speedway to watch him qualify Jonathan Byrd’s car on bump day. And Rutherford was in Stoops’ car. Watching him qualify, Rutherford went out and bumped him from the show. Vogler hopped in his “T” car. He went out and it was 5:58 but he was going to be able to get his run in AND Rutherford was going to be able to take the track before the gun sounded. So Vogler went onto the backstretch and about parked it, until he heard the gun go off and then he took off. He made it so that if he was going to make the show, Rutherford couldn’t get back in. But Vogler was a guy you wanted to beat. At the time he drove for the Hoffman family who later on I was privileged enough to drive for.

KO: Back to Jeff, did you have any kind of relationship with him at the time?

EG: I mean, we knew each other and we were acquaintances, more so through my good friend Robbie Stanley, because he just lived down the road from Robbie and he’d hang out at Robbie’s shop because he just moved here from California. We knew each other and we were acquaintances. Anytime we see each other now we’ll talk and shake hands but we weren’t buddies.

KO: Speaking of Rich, we of course lost him in that 1990 season at Salem. What about your memories of racing against him?

EG: He was one tough, ornery dude. I mean he was probably 140 pounds soaking wet. But when he put that helmet on, he didn’t care who or what you were, he was going to go over you, under you, through you. Self-determination is what I remember most about Rich Vogler.

KO: Has there been anyone to come along since his passing that’s been more fierce or intense?

EG: No. There’s always people that are intense. Every day you go to the racetrack there’s people that are intense. But it’s a whole different deal now. I’m not saying it’s good. I’m not saying it’s bad. You’ve got a guy like Rich Vogler, who could go to the Speedrome – and I watched him at the Speedrome on Thursday nights – when it was him and Mac McClellan in the UNO Badger midget – stuff like that – and he was running for Jonathan Byrd. But he could take his midget to the Speedrome and wax their fanny and then run at the 500 and then go run a sprint car show and then run a champ car. He was kind of like an anomaly.

KO: You couldn’t define him.

EG: No, you really couldn’t. He was just ornery. When he got in the cockpit, he was ornery. He was there to win. He wasn’t there for anything else.

KO: I cannot find it in the record book, but why do I seem to remember your first Turkey Night appearance in 1990? I thought I recalled seeing video of your incident.

EG: Oh yeah. I flipped that car clear out of the park. I did. I destroyed a brand new racecar. BRAND new everything. A guy named Ed Shefchik, out of Oregon…no…Washington. But he had built a brand new midget. It was a Challenger copy and Stewart VanDyne had built him a motor for it. And VanDyne was the one that told him to hire me. And I heard Ascot was shutting down and I wanted to run Ascot to say I ran Ascot and Turkey Night. So I flew out there with Tony Epperson and my dad. Those two went out there to keep an eye on me. I think I drew 107 out of 117 cars qualifying that night. 12 or 14 cars were locked in and the rest had to run a qualifying race. So I knew if I didn’t make it through qualifying that I wasn’t going to make it. It had the big, old, famous Ascot ledge and cushion. And I got the bright idea that if I flat-footed it, I was going to make the show. So, that’s what I tried doing.

KO: And it ended up going out of the joint?

EG: It flipped so hard, that it cracked the block, the crank, the injectors, the cage came off, tail tank gone. I remember coming to on the track and my dad ran over there and he goes, “Boy, tell me something broke on the car. Don’t tell me that you just didn’t let off of it like I think you didn’t. Tell me something broke.” I said, “No, nothing broke.” He just kind of shook his head and walked off. Tony Epperson was standing there and he goes, “Well, you better get the backup midget so we can get it in line for qualifying.” And the guy goes, “That’s the only midget I’ve got.” And Tony said, “What kind of Mickey Mouse operation is this? You’ve only got one midget?” But I remember the next day I got up in the morning and my eyes were completely full of blood. I went to Mesa Marin to watch CRA run and that’s the day Vukovich got killed. That was a rough trip.

KO: For 1991 you moved to the black number six Molds Unlimited car owned by Ohio’s Terry Winterbotham, a seat once occupied by Jeff Gordon and Kevin Huntley.

EG: Andy Hillenburg, Kerry Norris…

KO: Was there any added pressure to get wins and a championship just for that reason alone – those names?

EG: No, because Terry was going through a lot. He was getting divorced. The deal wasn’t what it once was. His business had taken a turn. Actually, what the pressure was; was to keep the thing running from week to week. Whatever the cars took in is what they ran on. He had a lot going on. He had gotten divorced and got hooked up with some gal who got pregnant and had a kid that required a lot of medical attention and had a lot of medical problems. I only saw him at one race that year.

KO: So did Phil Shuler come along for the ride too?

EG: Yeah, I drug Phil into that deal too. That quagmire.

KO: 1991 saw the emergence of 1989 All Star champion Robbie Stanley at Winchester, winning the opener and the show in mid-May. Didn’t you give him a ride in your own car at Winchester at the end of 1990?

EG: Yeah, I did. Yeah I did.

KO: Was it for fun or did you have issues with your car?

EG: No, we took two cars because I was running for the championship. We were trying to compete with the Hoffmans and they started taking two cars to every race at the end of the year. So in case your main car broke in hot laps or heat race, you’d have someone qualify your backup car and then jump out of the seat to run the feature. I went to Winchester with both cars and asked Robbie to qualify and race the one in case I needed it for the feature. He ran it and when it was all done he said he had a blast and that probably precipitated him running in ’91. So I probably should have kept his fanny out of it.

KO: Given the fact that you two were friends, was his success in USAC easier to swallow?

EG: The thing about Robbie is that he was also like Vogler as far as determination. But the other thing he had going was that his whole family was that way. Robbie, when he was 16, had knee surgery, and they botched it. They destroyed his knee. I remember him telling me that being a racecar driver, you know how people have a dream, saying that’s the only thing they wanted to be? He knew that was the only thing he COULD be because he physically was never going to be able to have a regular job. So he had the determination, every time he got in the seat, to whoop everybody’s ass because that was it. He told me that was all he was ever going to be able to do because he could not physically stand up and do a normal job.

Playing the Banjo in Berlin – Gordon wheels Mike Bowman’s champ car in PRA action at one of his favorite venues: Berlin, Michigan. (David Sink photo)

KO: So was the rivalry between you two fierce or friendly?

EG: It was actually pretty tame, because we had raced against each other for so long in the quarter midgets and with the All Stars and the Outlaws. It was pretty tame. We’d sit there and hang out together. We’d ride to racetracks together. We’d drink many a beer together afterwards. We told each other many a lie, you know.

KO: 1991 - you scored three wins that season, using a pavement car of your (or Shuler’s) design I believe, which may have been new for 1991. I liked to call that particular piece “the low rider”.

EG: That was Shuler’s deal.

KO: It seemed like it sat on the ground. I seem to recall you running Penske shocks and Goodyear tires too, when no one else did that. Was there anything different or special about that car, because you seemed to run it for several years?

EG: Well, it was a good car. It took us about two years to figure the Penske shocks out for that car. And once we figured out what that car liked as far as the shock package went and the stagger package, it just became an issue of repeating those exact settings. That car and that Little 5 car sitting over there are kind of the same thing. As long as you hit those same numbers, it was going to do the same thing. You could keep your eyes closed, and it was going to run itself at a particular venue. That car was the first car I’d been involved in that actually made money. That car was a money making racecar. Every time it went to a racetrack, we felt it was going to be a top three car. We were getting tires – it was going to be a money making car. There’s a handful of cars that people can say do that. Glen had one with the 20 car. I’ve been fortunate enough that I’ve had two of them.

KO: In July, you won at Winchester, which had to be a big deal. And you won the Hulman Classic when it was at IRP, a big name race. Given the names and venue, were those extra satisfying or were those just races on the schedule that you happened to win?

EG: No, they were special and now that I’m older, it’s neat to see your name in the record book for those races. But at the time, it was literally survival. It was – get to the next race.

KO: The ride with Winterbotham – you talked about what he was going through at the time – so it wasn’t everything you’d hoped it would be. What was really missing? Was it his presence or was it money?

EG: Money. Whatever the car was taking in is what it was running on. That’s it. If it took in $1200, that’s what you were running it on at the next race. That counts putting fuel in the hauler and any bent or broken pieces. I’d have to beg, borrow, or steal parts. Plus my food. That was it.

KO: That sounds pretty stressful.

EG: Very. It sucked. Really, now that I think about it. I was a crack head.

KO: So another Berlin win in ’91 – even one more in ’92 – including the win in ’90 that made three in a row. Why did you have so much success there?

EG: Because of that car. We had kind of come up with a combination of stagger, shocks, and bars on that car. Plus that’s such a really odd layout for a racetrack. I remember watching hot laps – Randy Sweet was running a stock car there in hot laps – and decided I was going to do something different, as far as where I was going to run. And it seemed to work. I’ve always liked that place because they had packed stands. They always had knowledgeable fans. They always had people come out of the stands and talk your ear off about racing. I wish we could go up there more. Or move it down here.

KO: Early in the 1991 season, they ran at least three shows at Granite City. Did you ever get tired of towing across Indiana and Illinois on I-70?

EG: Yeah, because you could only go 55 in Illinois back then. They were like Ohio. They had cops at every other exit. You’d haul ass to Terre Haute and then you’d have to climb on the binders and go 55 through Illinois.

KO: So that kind of got old I would imagine.

EG: Well, also the thing that got old about the Granite City thing - I think that was a Wednesday night winged series and Doug Wolfgang came in there and cherry picked – exactly what you said earlier. I’ve run with USAC for 20 years or just shy of 20 years. I was a big supporter of USAC. And they have some things that people don’t realize that made them a good series to run with. The insurance for drivers. I got hurt at Lakeside, Kansas in a midget one time and I spent four days in intensive care at the University of Kansas hospital. I never saw one bill. People don’t think about that when they’re 18 years old. But USAC has also made a bunch of bonehead moves and the Wednesday night winged thing at Granite City was one of them.

KO: At the end of 1991, you scored your third runner-up finish in USAC sprint car points, only 35 points behind Stanley with Butler not too far behind you. I remember driving up there and it was too cold to race.

EG: That was the one that got snowed out. I remember that. We were only 30-some points behind Robbie. I crashed at the Four Crown. Tray House spit out a set of quick change gears right in front of me and Robbie. I was ahead of Robbie at Four Crown in the feature, late in the show. Now Winterbotham’s dirt sprinter – that was a good car. That was the best dirt sprinter I’d ever driven. It was a flop-tube super lightweight throwaway World of Outlaw car and I loved it. We ran good with it. I think we were running 6^th in the feature and Tray House spit out a set of quick change gears right in front of me and Robbie.

We both hit Tray. We were spinning down the track and I thought, “Well, I’m going to hit Robbie as hard as I can because if I’m out and I take him out, I’ll be able to save points.” My front end’s collapsed and I gassed it as hard as I could. I aimed to knock his front end out and I missed him and hit the inside wall. He kept going and finished 7^th. He passed me in the points and then the deal got snowed out at Winchester and I never had the chance.

KO: Was the fact that they didn’t bother to reschedule that race upsetting?

EG: Yeah, but there again, what are you going to do? It’s November. We shouldn’t be running at Winchester in November anyway. They should have run the thing in October that way if the weather was bad you’d have enough time to reschedule it.

KO: Also in ’91, you ran the Hut Hundred for Rollie Helmling and drove Claire Pattee’s 37 Silver Crown car at the Four Crown, having a nice duel with Jack Hewitt for the win. Those were some good opportunities. Did you turn down any rides over the years that you may have regretted just because you were a loyal guy?

EG: I turned down the Hoffman ride for Dick Fuller. How’s that for stupid? I turned it down because Robbie got killed in their car and it was too soon after that had happened. And because my wife told me to.

KO: Any other one-off rides that you remember being big deals?

EG: I’ve run the Tamale Wagon and got fired out of it. Let’s see here…I’ve run a bunch of stuff. I’ve run cars for Bob Parker a few times. It seemed like for a while there were a string of cars I turned down that really weren’t too swift for turning down to stay in the deal I was in. I remember the Hoffman deal, but there were some when I was running for Print Express. Bob Parker wanted me to run for him and I told him I couldn’t, that I had to finish the year out for Print Express and that I was loyal to Print Express and that I was going to run for them. Parker went and got Hewitt instead and then the next year took him to the Speedway. So how’s that for smart?

And I got fired by Print Express that winter. My loyalty got me a long way on that one.

KO: More midgets in 1991 – remember that Stapp chassis number 6?

EG: Oh yeah! We actually ran pretty good in that one until we put that Subaru in it.

KO: It was owned by John Black. What was the other guy’s name?

EG: Scott Anderson.

KO: Tom Hooker built the engines and it had the Cosworth in it at first.

EG: And that thing was a screamer.

KO: In ’91 you ran the number six the first night at Belleville and then you must have had problems because the second night you ran for Dave Ellis.

EG: We were running in the top five of the feature on Thursday night in Black’s car and we had a cushion. That’s the way Eldora should be. Belleville is what Eldora should be. A ten inch tall cushion six feet off the fence so you could flat foot it! They do a phenomenal job on their track.

I remember running in the top five and I told John Black it was like a religious experience. The car was handling so great you could flat foot it, you could run the cushion, you were up high and everything was working well. Then the crank came out of the bottom. And Friday I tried getting a ride. Keith Rauch was running for Ellis and that was the house car. They put a brand new Gaerte in there. There was something experimental about it and Rauch didn’t like it. So he quit Ellis Friday night after the show. He went to run for somebody else in a Beast. And Ellis came up to me and said, “Well, both of us towed all the way here. Why don’t you hop in my car and start on the tail? Let’s just see what happens.” And we made it all the way through those deals and made it into the A. We started on the tail and finished 8^th I think. As long as you didn’t let off, the car was fast. There was something with the barrel valve that if you let off, it took you half a lap to get going. Well Dave said, “Just don’t let off.”

Niebel Classic – Exiting one of Anderson, Indiana corners, Eric is on the gas and has the wheels cranked left at the 2007 Glen Niebel Classic. (David Sink photo)

KO: You knew how to do that from Turkey Night.

EG: Yeah. But it actually works there. See, he had a flop tube rear, lightweight midget too.

KO: Neat. You finished off the year running Manzanita for Ron Hughes, right?

EG: Caught on fire I think.

KO: You’re not a real flashy guy and it’s just not your style to seek out a midget ride to get more attention to make it to the big time. You had a lot of midget rides early. But later in your career, why didn’t you seek out more midget rides?